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Dr Gerald Toben has been arrested and held in this country under an EU arrest warrant on charges of being a holocaust denier. He has previously been convicted in Germany of saying the holocaust was a lie. That is a crime in Germany - but not here, so Lib Dems are saying he should not be extradited.
By contrast, Debbie Purdy has asked for a High Court ruling on her own case - she has a terminal illness, and may feel in future that she wishes to end her life before it becomes unbearable in a clinic in Switzerland. If her husband helps her in any way (such as heloing her to get to Switzerland)he may face prosecution and imprisonment for assisting a suicide, which is a criminal offence in this country. But it isn't a crime in Switzerland.
How should we deal with the inconsistencies of different legal systems? Should this country collude in legal processes in which it doesn't believe? When I was 16, I visited Germany for the first time. I drank in bars there, because it was legal to do so at 16, although it would have been illegal for me to do the same thing at home. Should I have been prosecuted for under-age drinking when I got back?
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 20 November 2008 10:41
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| As wrong headed as this chap is, (how can anyone say the holocaust didn't happen?) I don't think we should ship him back to Germany for something that isn't a crime in this country. Similarly, if people choose to end their life in an assisted suicide clinic in a country like Switzerland, their relatives should be immune from prosecution in the UK if they helped them with travel arrangements etc.
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Forum Poster
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| Hi Tony B! There are a number of things here and I will list them: laws, freedom, morality, penal/actual punishment and nation-role. With the halacaust denier, it's amazing how the world wars affect laws, although, is just for feelings and sentient reasons. Well, I understand that sentiency has governances of principal rather than law or rule. And is related to compassion rather than cause and effect thinking (I heard this on the BBC World service yesterday). Offencessive statements are necessary to formulate political thinking (that's why newspaper headlines are often slightly offensive) and maybe offensive people should be questioned fundamentally by our social services? Or not. But suicide is a hot potatoe and topic as I have been told that lots of people commit suicide in Switzerland and this country too. I am dual Bristish-Swiss nationality but I was born in Trinidad, thankfully. In the Caribbean, I heard that you're not late until a day has past, so there's one reason for a low suicide rate! I also heard that a family assisted a person in aweful pain to ned their life on earth. There is an instance whereby a community killed themselves rather than allow an army to have the pleasure in the Bible. Daniel. PS That person may have needed to die and may have gone to heaven. But all life is sacred because it is God (life).
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Forum Poster
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Last Login: 23 December 2008 07:31
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| Of course the laws of countries vary, according the the needs of each country and it's citizens, and in a democracy the citizens can have some influence on the law making process, and that is correct. What worries me is EXTRADITION, about which more and more Govermnets are signing treeties. Fine up to a point, but I don't think anyone should be extradited from thier country of natioanlity. If a forien country has evidence against them, then that evidence should be put before the courts in their own country and dealt with there. This already happens a lot within the EU states. Clearly it is different if the 'criminal' is apprehended in the forien country where he/she comitted the crime, but once the person in back on home turf, they should be tried by their own legal system not extradited. Cearly a fugitive should be extradited back to his/her country of nationality, if requeated, provided they are not likely to be tortured, executed or placed in personal danger. No person should ever be extradited to countries with poor human rights records, like China, Iran, USA, Zimbarbwe, etc. And as far as the murder of forien nationals in Swiss Assisted Suiside Clinics is concerned, the Swiss Government is about to close the loophole which at present permits non-Swiss nationals to have their lives ended in this way.
He who laughs last is a fool for waiting so long!
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Jaybee "And as far as the murder of forien nationals in Swiss Assisted Suiside Clinics is concerned,"
Isn't murder rather an emotive term? Even under our own lawcode, assisting someone to end their life is a criminal offence, but it is neither murder nor manslaughter.
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Forum Poster
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Last Login: 23 December 2008 07:31
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| Yes, of course, I stand corrected. Manslaughter not murder would be appropriate, if it were proven that the person could not have eneded their life without the help of the accused. All human life is sacred, as set out in the International Treaty on Human Rights to which most 'civilised' countries are signatoiries even if they only pay only scant attention to it, and in the hipocratic oath sworn by medical doctors when they begin their professions. Switzerland is not a member of the EU, although surrounded by it, and therefore cannot be held to account under the strict EU directives on this crontrovercial subject.
He who laughs last is a fool for waiting so long!
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